Sean Is Concerned and He's Not The Only One - Part 4

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April 29, 2024

Time to Grow Up - Part 5

00:00: All right, everybody, let's get started today. Today is Friday. Friday, that means that this is the weekend coming up.
00:06: I hope you've got a good one planned and all of that kind of thing. In any case, we're going to get back to the
00:12: Sean DeMar's interview with Doug Wilson and Joe Rigney. And yeah, you know, no introduction here.
00:19: Let's just get to it. Shot at the abolitionists at the end, which
00:25: I'm sure you got grief for as well, where he said, you know, these abolitionists, where were they for all these years?
00:31: They just all of a sudden showing up at wanting to abolish abortion. He kind of takes a shot at that.
00:37: And it was a it was a puzzling one. But it was like, there's certain groups that I will not be associated with and want to put distance.
00:43: And there's others that I want to treat as we're in that we're all in the family. And, and so forth.
00:49: So Eric Mason, even the theonomist, which was funny is the theonomist got, you know, they're misguided. They're well intentioned, but misguided.
00:55: There was charity there towards the recons because they're dead. Yeah, yeah, that's an interesting point he made there.
01:02: I did not notice that. And I didn't, I didn't think of that right away. But yeah, it's, it's, it's pretty true.
01:10: It's pretty true. You know, the theonomist did get at least something. And there's got to be a reason for that, because he's he doesn't like theonomist either, obviously.
01:21: And Joe Rigney seems to think it's because they're, they're no longer with us. I mean, basically, all of them have passed away, you know,
01:28: Rush Dooney, Gary North, DeMars is still around, of course, but, and then, and then
01:35: Joel McDermott, who's not even really a theonomist anymore. So, yeah, I don't know.
01:41: I mean, it's a very interesting point that he made there about who gets charity and who gets, you know, the hammer.
01:51: Critical race theory, one of the, and critical theory in general, but let's be specific here. One of the tenets of critical race theory is race, racism is ubiquitous.
01:59: If you think it's not there, that's because you're blinded and you are part of the problem. And what that does is it trains people to see racism where it's not.
02:07: Do you think it's possible, leading question alert, do you think it's possible that from so many years of sort of feeling like you've been pushed to the boundaries of evangelicalism, that you have a bit of a complex and can personalize things that are not personal?
02:26: I wonder if, I wonder if Sean was fed this question from somewhere, which is totally fine.
02:33: There's nothing against Sean, but it does not seem like, in my opinion, I mean, I don't know
02:38: Sean personally, obviously, but, but it does seem like a question that doesn't really come from him.
02:44: It comes from somewhere else. And so he's basically saying, hey, guys, I think
02:50: I've already said that this is, this is a hilarious question. And I think a legitimate question.
02:56: And I told Sean that I thought, I thought this was really funny. But, but hey, guys, isn't it possible that is it possible that this is all in your head?
03:06: You know, that you guys think that everybody is against you, but really, you're just making it all up?
03:12: Or maybe they used to be, but they're not anymore. And, you know, that kind of thing.
03:18: And you gotta love a question like that.
03:30: It's really good. It's really good. And so what's funny is Doug, obviously was not expecting this question.
03:38: And he, he, he kind of like, pauses for a good five seconds. We'll see,
03:43: I'll time it. And, and he answers after a good, good long pause.
03:51: But you know, here's the thing. I mean, I, I, I've seen this in action myself.
03:57: And obviously, it's impossible to know if everybody is kind of being influenced by this embargo and all that kind of thing.
04:05: It's not possible to know that, of course, but, you know, you see it enough times and you understand what's going on.
04:12: And you hear it, you know, word for word enough times, you know, what's going on. So it's a completely legitimate question.
04:19: And it's a funny question. But it's, it's, it's really beyond dispute.
04:25: At this point, it's not something that is really to be taken seriously.
04:30: So yeah, and I mean, I've seen it myself with my own experiences.
04:35: I've, I've heard about it numerous times. And so it's very clear that this is, this is not something that they're making up.
04:44: It's very obvious and clear. And there's really no questioning it. And so anyway, funny question.
04:52: And I just, I can't get over how funny the question is. Look at them.
04:59: Three seconds. Four. Yeah, I would say five in the abstract. Certainly. Sure. Yeah.
05:05: If, if they shoot at you long enough, the next shot that you hear might not be aimed at you at all.
05:13: But you may have good reason to believe that. Yeah. So Mark Twain once said a cat that sits on a hot stove lid will never sit on a hot stove lid again, but neither will it sit on a cold one, you know?
05:24: So yeah, if someone's fires up their attack machine and I start, my left eye starts to twitch,
05:31: I might be, I might be making a mistake thinking that they're talking about me when they're not.
05:37: Yeah. But they usually are. Yeah. Right. So they usually are. And what's, what's really puzzling about this question is, is, is because Joe Rigney just got done explaining a few seconds ago about Ligon Duncan in particular, and how he used
05:55: Kevin de Young's article as his jumping off point to talk about the Moscow mood. And so, which makes sense because that's, that's what the article, that's the article that coined the phrase, right?
06:04: So, and that article was definitively about Doug Wilson. I mean, it wasn't about the, the mob.
06:10: It wasn't about, it was about Doug and the things that Doug has said and things like that. So it's just a very, it's,
06:17: I think that question is, it was hilarious and legitimate, but it's also a little bit puzzling because in this context, there is no mistaking it.
06:26: There is no questioning it. So it's just a very, I mean, yeah, sure. I, theoretically I could have a complex, right.
06:33: But in this case, the shot was definitely coming my direction.
06:41: And have consistently been, but I, I, I think I'm pretty placid and easygoing when it comes to that.
06:49: I don't, I sleep fine. I don't sit up nights worrying, worrying about it. So I would say a complex is not what
06:57: I, the word I would use, but if something blows up and someone asked me, who do you think he's talking about?
07:03: Yeah. I would probably say, well, yeah, probably me. And one way that it would, you could disprove it if there was, if there were people who were willing to accept the invitation, it would sort of put the, so, so you, part of your question is you guys say there's an, maybe
07:19: I'll rephrase it. You guys think there's an embargo. Is that, could it just be that it's in your head that you guys, you know what
07:25: I mean? Is, is there really concerted efforts to make sure that Moscow stays quarantined? And it's like, well, the other thing about this question that, that could be legitimate, it could be that people just don't like you and they, they, it's, there's no embargo.
07:39: They just don't want to accept your invitations. It could be that, you know, people, you know, think that you're unbelievers and they're too cowardly to say so directly, but they treat you like a tax collector.
07:53: You know, they, they want nothing to do with you. You're like a leper to them. It could be that as well. It doesn't require an embargo, but just maybe people don't like you.
08:03: So like, like for me, like if I was invited on a, I don't, I can't even think of a person, but if I'll give you an example, like if Joel McDermott had a podcast, maybe he does.
08:13: I don't know. Cause I don't care. But if Joel McDermott invited me on his show, I wouldn't, I would not accept,
08:19: I wouldn't go on the show. I don't, I don't really like him that much. I don't know that I could control my temper.
08:27: So I wouldn't do it. And there's really, I don't see any value in it. So I wouldn't do it. I would just say no, but there's no embargo.
08:33: Like we don't talk about our, with our friends. Oh yeah, we got to isolate Joel McDermott. We don't, we don't discuss him.
08:39: He's just a non -issue to us. He's a joke. We, when we, when he does something and says something stupid, we laugh at it and we move on.
08:46: So this doesn't require an embargo, but so yeah, in that kind of a situation, sure.
08:51: But that's not the situation we have here. The situation we have here is people accept because they, you know, they, they think
08:58: Doug Wilson's just fine. They like him, you know, maybe they don't agree with him, but they respect him and value his contributions and they want to set the record straight.
09:06: They accept and then they decline. And when they're asked why they're declining, when they renege on their acceptance, they explain what, what happened.
09:14: And that's how we know about the embargo. So it's, it's not as there's, it's not like there's, there's no evidence for, and you guys are just making this up.
09:25: Like that happens so often that we understand what's happening. We know what's going on.
09:31: We understand the pressure. I've seen it with my own eyes, the pressure. So anyway, let's continue.
09:38: Maybe it's just in our heads. I don't think I, I wouldn't say that, but an easy way to disprove it would be to lift the embargo.
09:46: If somebody were to show up or accept an invocation to discuss anything, then it would sort of be,
09:51: I didn't, I didn't mention earlier. Not only do we have people scheduled to come here that have canceled, but I've been invited to various conferences and then been uninvited.
10:02: So that's happened numerous times. And when I'm invited, oftentimes
10:07: I'll say, Hey, thank you for the invitation. Why don't you look a few things up on the internet first?
10:13: Are you really sure? Right. Yeah, I'm really sure. But you have to, you also have to understand it's not you, like,
10:18: I'll just say this on his behalf. He's not offended by it. Like it, like again, it's not like, so sometimes
10:24: I think people hear that and they go, you're trying to, you're painting yourself as a victim. You're trying to get empathy. And it's like, that's the last thing, you know, there's not, there's none of that.
10:33: I guess the only reason I asked that is because in the moment, I didn't even for a second, think that those comments were directed at you guys.
10:42: It wasn't until the backlash on the internet that I went, Oh, okay. I see how people got there.
10:47: But in the moment I thought, well, certainly he's talking about the way people have the Moscow mood has sort of just become a label for people who are sarcastic, combative, so on and so forth.
10:58: Theological alt -right, sort of. Okay. So we're going to talk about that later, but I guess we'll talk about it now.
11:04: Let me ask you this. Do you believe in the woke right? The woke right? The woke right.
11:09: Like basically the equivalent of the woke left, but the, the dissident right guys. Yeah. Think about GK Beal sort of, you become what you -
11:16: The woke right? The woke, do you believe in the woke right?
11:22: The woke right? Never heard of it. Oh man.
11:28: Let's, let's, let's see if we can get into this. I, I, I'm not really sure. I don't have a whole lot of time. You behold, you know, you spend so much time interacting with the woke that you begin to mimic their tactics.
11:39: Well, I, I would say there's - I believe in the woke right. If that's the definition, if that's the definition.
11:45: So I, I don't, I don't think the woke right actually exists either.
11:51: But if the definition is you, you spend so much time interacting with the woke church that you kind of mimic their tactics.
11:59: That's definitely something that's real. I think Owen Strawn is a good example of that. And that's not that surprising because Owen was woke, you know, a few, a few minutes ago.
12:11: And by the way, people sometimes there's always new listeners and people hear me say that Owen Strawn used to be woke. And they say that I'm slandering him,
12:19: I'm lying and stuff like that. Just spend a few minutes looking, looking it up. I mean, you, you can easily find article, woke articles from Owen Strawn.
12:26: You can easily find stuff that he's said that are, it's very just kind of standard, not, not woke right.
12:32: Like standard woke, like leftist woke, that kind of thing. It's very easy to find. So anyway, so, so yeah, there is a lot of woke right, if that's the definition, you know,
12:43: I think people right now, their, their, their, their brains. And look,
12:49: I'm not saying people are stupid, but we've been, we've all been trained and catechized over the years to accept a lot of these kind of woke premises about how there's a racist under every rock and all of this kind of thing.
13:01: But I think a lot of the discourse regarding antisemitism in the right is the exact same tactics as the, the woke church stuff about racism.
13:12: It's everything is the same. I mean, there's a lot of assumptions. There's a lot of made up stuff. There's a lot of nonsense.
13:18: And so I would argue that, that, that, you know, 90 % of the time when you hear someone talking about antisemitism, it is the identical way that in the woke church days that you heard people talk about racism.
13:32: It wasn't real. It was just something that they said. And it was based on assumptions and weird, you know, statistics and all that kind of stuff.
13:40: It's all the same. And so does that mean that there aren't people out there that hate Jews because they're
13:45: Jews? No, it doesn't mean that just like, you know, racism didn't mean that there weren't people out there that hated black people.
13:52: Sure. There are some like that, but 90 % or more, I mean, I don't know the percentages.
13:57: I'm not, I'm not, I'm not into that kind of thing, but, but nine times out of 10, you hear someone talk about racism, it's fake.
14:03: It's not real. It's not really racist. Nine times out of 10, if you hear someone getting called an antisemite, it's fake.
14:09: It's not real. It doesn't exist. So yeah, if that's the definition of the woke right, there's tons of people like that right now that, that, that are, are, you know, very concerned about the rise of antisemitism and all of this stuff.
14:26: And if you're not for Israel, like, this is the point, like, like if you say Christ is King, you're an antisemite. Well, that's the woke right.
14:32: That's woke right. You say Christ is King, you're an antisemite. That's an antisemitic slur. Woke right.
14:37: That's the same tactics. You know what I mean? The same thing. You don't, if you don't, if you're not for sending
14:43: Israel money to fight off Palestine, then you're, you're antisemitic. Like that's again, it's the same tactics.
14:51: It's the same tactics as the woke church. And now it's on the right as well. And look, this is, this is a very complex issue.
14:59: We'll talk about it probably more. We'll yeah, we'll get to it. I wouldn't say mimicking their tactics, although there is some of that.
15:07: Yeah. I would say that, and this is something I'm actually quite concerned about on the right is identity politics.
15:16: Yes. Is very much a danger on the right. Yes. Okay. We don't want to just do it better than them.
15:23: Right. Well, which is what a lot of people on the right are doing. These are people who've been taunted their entire adult lives for being white.
15:33: Okay. And, and finally they say, okay, I can't do anything about it. I might as well be proud of it. So I might as well embrace it.
15:40: And I'll take a page from your book and not your book, a page from the woke left.
15:47: Right. So I'll take a page from Saul Alinsky. I'll take,
15:53: I'll take a page from those guys and I'm going to be white and proud. I'm going to start hating
15:58: Jews. I'm going to start, you know, I'm going to start doing the thing. And that is a big concern of mine.
16:05: And I regard it as almost entirely the creation of the left.
16:10: So, so, okay. So, you know, he's, he's mentioning antisemitism and I don't think that what he said there would qualify for what
16:20: I'm saying on the woke right. Because he, he was a little bit more careful.
16:26: I do think though, that, that sometimes, you know, someone will say something about Jewish, you know, influence on our country.
16:34: And when Doug says, Oh, it's envy, you know, it's this and that, that is a page out of the woke church because he doesn't know that.
16:43: I mean, there's, there's lots of reasons why someone could be talking about Jewish influence on the
16:49: United States that have nothing to do with antisemitism. And it's very analogous to someone bringing up murder rates in black communities, right?
17:00: Because think of it this way, like in the woke church days, you know, you got called a racist. If you pointed out the obvious statistical fact that murder rates in black communities are very high, right.
17:12: They're very high. And so, you know, we need to, you know, accept that reality and then figure out what to do about it.
17:20: Right. Except the reality. So don't, it makes no sense to deny reality and then figure out what to do about it.
17:28: And so, that was, you know, that's why, you know, people would call someone like me a racist.
17:35: So I think that though, that when, when people bring that kind of stuff up, you need a lot more than just that to call someone a racist, right?
17:44: There's got to be something else there. And it's the same with the antisemitism stuff. You know, if you say,
17:49: Hey, you know, it's very interesting that all of these like horrible, you know, moral, morally horrendous policies and things like that, you know, you know,
18:00: Jewish people support them like at record numbers. And then they lead all of these awful institutions and all.
18:09: And it's just, it's just amazing. Like, it's just, you keep seeing it. The statistics are obvious.
18:16: So what I mean by saying, well, that's just envy. Um, when you, when you say that kind of stuff, it's analogous to the woke church saying, well, that's just racist when you bring up the black murder rates.
18:27: Um, and so there, but you need a lot more than that to say stuff like that. You really do. Um, so it makes no sense to deny the statistics.
18:35: It makes no sense to not talk about the statistics. It makes no sense to pretend that everyone that does is some kind of an evil, you know, a hate monger or whatever.
18:43: Um, so that's the thing. So I think that that's a demonstration of if you define woke right that way, um, which
18:52: I don't think it makes any sense to, but whatever. Um, that that's an example of it. That's an example of it. Um, and oftentimes the people bringing up the statistics, they go through great pains to say,
19:04: I'm not saying that blacks are, uh, you know, more violent or like, like it's not saying there's a genetic thing that makes them more this way.
19:11: Like they go through great pains to try to, you know, not be racist. But of course it never works, right? It never works when you have the woke, uh, perspective on things.
19:21: And I think that people do the same with the Jewish stuff. I mean, you know, Torba gets, you know, you know, you know, call the anti -Semite all day long, every single day.
19:31: And then people think they got them. They're like, I'm going to sing them. I'm going to sing them. What do you say to you? What do you say to Jews that are believers?
19:38: You know, I don't like them too. You hate them too. And of course he's like, well, no, because you know, I don't,
19:44: I don't hate Jews, number one. And number two, Jews that are believers are my brothers in the Lord.
19:50: And it's like, well, okay. I mean, he said what he needed to say. Is it possible that he seeks to harbor some secret hatred that he's not telling you about and lying about?
19:57: Well, sure. It's possible. Just like it's possible for anyone to lie about anything. So it's, um, anyway, that's a, that's a good example,
20:07: I think of, um, of, of woke wars too, and how it's, uh, how it's kind of manifesting.
20:14: Let's continue. Oh yeah. Right. They, they invented it. But can you fill out the almost?
20:21: Almost entirely? Yeah. Well, I think a bunch of it comes from Adam. In other words, everybody's a sinner.
20:28: And, uh, so basically vain philosophies oftentimes grease the skids, but we don't really need help coming up.
20:37: Here's a way to know that if you're, you're, that you're infected by the, the woke mind virus, because this is a, I think a lot of people on the right that have kind of adopted some of the woke tactics.
20:46: I think they at least have their, their heads on straight enough to do a little self -evaluation.
20:52: I think the people on the left that have the woke virus, I mean, they've, they've long since abandoned any kind of ability to kind of evaluate themselves.
20:59: But for those of you on the right that, um, have, you know, have, have that maybe, you know, qualify for this, uh, here, here's, here's one way to kind of test yourself.
21:11: So if you can hear somebody talk about statistics, um, that would, that would potentially make the
21:21: Jewish community look, um, bad in some way, you know what I mean? It's just statistics. And if your first reaction is to call the person that's pointing the statistic, it doesn't matter if statistics is true or not.
21:34: It doesn't matter. That's not the point of this. What I'm saying is if your first reaction is to think, oh, wow, that's anti -Semitic or to call him an anti -Semite or to say something like that, just a slogan, right?
21:44: A made up slogan. Um, you very well could be infected by this mind virus because here's the thing.
21:50: And I'm not saying that I'm immune to this. I'm not. I told you about this. There was a tweet the other day about, um, about, uh, about, uh, violence in black communities.
22:01: And I, it was a long tweet. And I remember I started reading it and then I closed it and I said, I don't want to read anymore. I was like, oh no, this friend of mine, he's racist now.
22:08: That was my first thought. That's because I've been catechized over, over, over a long time to think that way, to not think and to just feel, oh my goodness, this guy's a racist and, um, and make my decision to move on.
22:24: And then I read the rest of the tweet and it was the slightest. In fact, it was the kind of thing that people that really are racist really hate.
22:35: And so this is, none of us are immune to this. None of us are immune to this. You need to be honest with yourself though.
22:41: If you're not, if you're, if you, if you shut your brain off and you jump to, okay, that guy's a race, uh, an anti -Semite because he said this thing, uh, statistics about Jewish, you know, influence on the politics and it looks negative.
22:55: So that must be anti -Semitic. You've been catechized since the day you were born to react that way.
23:01: That's a reaction. That's the kind of reaction that Doug Wilson earlier in this article says you shouldn't do.
23:09: You shouldn't have that kind of reaction. Um, it's very difficult. I'm not saying this as easy. It's very difficult because you've been catechized since the day you were born to react this way about racism, anti -Semitism, and it's all been, been programmed into you from every angle, from in every way.
23:32: And so that's the thing guys. I, I, I'm going to stop there. We're going to get more into it in just a minute, but, um, but yeah,
23:39: I think, uh, that's an interesting little, uh, section of the, of the interview. In any case, I hope you found this helpful.